The Lekker Rugby Pod: Damian Willemse on the France Quarter-Final Scrum Call, Scanning, and What Drives Him

Brenden Nel: This is the Lekker Rugby Pod, only on Megaphone Rugby. Welcome, Lekker Rugby Pod viewers, to the continuing series of Side by Side. And we have a man on today that I have wanted to talk to for a very long time. You know him, and I know him, as Damian Willemse. Gaza, the clutch in the Stormers' car, the fashionista. He's got the scarves, the specs, the shades, the puffs, the long shorts and the short longs. He even has a three-piece suit sometimes. He knows where he's from. He's got roots and strands. Somerset West, Paul Roos, and he's the youngest Rugby World Cup two-time winner. He plays as a fullback, a flyhalf, a centre, a full-off, a fly-back. He can play any position in the back line. He cleans up beaches, he builds back forests, and he runs for the oceans. How's it? Gaza, how are you doing?

Damian Willemse: Hello, Harry. Hello, everyone. Hello to all the listeners and viewers. Thank you for having me. It's a great honour to be on here today and just chat with you. So thanks for having me.

Brenden Nel: Yeah, we couldn't get Andre Hugo-Venter, so we had to go with you, Damian. Sorry. He's big time.

Damian Willemse: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it, man.

On the Side by Side Concept with Inge Croy

Brenden Nel: We were thinking about how to present players to the world in this sort of series of how to get inside. And we liked the idea of pairing you up. And we've gone with coaches. We obviously had guys like Brock Harris, Rito Shungwani. But today, we're having the head physio at the Stormers. Been that for seven years, probably at Western Province before that. Co-owner of Naylor and Croy with the former Bok physio, Ren Naylor, since 2010. And Inge Croy is our side-by-side guest today because we love the idea of thinking about how that lonely run from touchline into the field of play to attend to a player who's stricken, who's broken, who's sore, or maybe just needs a rest. What that whole dialogue goes and how that goes. So welcome, Inge Croy. How are you doing?

Inge Croy: Hi, Harry. Thank you so much for having me. It's a real honour to be here with you and to be chatting with you and to be sitting next to this great legend. You've just rambled on about his credentials, so those are incredible. And I'm so used to being behind the scenes, so I will try my best to keep you well-informed. Let's put it that way.

Brenden Nel: That's what we love, though. We love the people behind the scenes coming out from under. Obviously, Damian's been in the spotlight. He and I both shared a dream to be on GQ. His dream came true, mine didn't.

Damian Willemse: Man, Muscle & Fitness, same thing.

On the Physio-Player Relationship

Brenden Nel: No, but Inge, I'll start with you. When I was a player, we had a guy come onto the field when we were hurt. His name was Mouf Faniker. And all he did was smash on the place that was hurting. Does it hurt now? Does it hurt worse? Does it hurt more? We didn't want to see him. Now, you're bringing a bag on, you've got diagnostic tools, you know each other, you're probably an amateur psychologist. Talk to me about that. Someone's down on the field, you run on, what are you taking and what are you looking for?

Inge Croy: Obviously, we have our own field bag and I think we're well equipped with strappings, scissors, tape, pickle juice for the cramps. We're not sure about the research, but we go with that as well. I think the most important thing when we get there is knowing the player and not just going, what's wrong? Sometimes you have to give them some time. Oh, to my frustration, some of the times, but you wait, give them a moment, let them breathe, and then you can actually get to what's wrong. We try and assess it as quickly as we can because you've seen some refs. The other day, we were strapping and the line-out was already happening. You have to try and be as quick and as accurate with the diagnosis so we can give comms to the coaches immediately. Is it a red call? Is it an orange call? Is it a green call? We know this player can go or we're keeping an eye on him or it's a definite no. But all of this in less than one minute, actually.

Brenden Nel: Yeah, and it's noisy. There's things going on around you. Obviously, you've had those occasions to talk to a physio. How hard is it? You want to get back in the game, right? You just want to get back in there. But you have to tell the truth and you have to talk to them. How does that go for you?

Damian Willemse: I think, as Inge said, it's all about firstly just giving a moment and then obviously assessing it and just being as honest as possible. Sometimes, obviously, the adrenaline is still pumping and you feel like you can go, but sometimes you just need to do the right thing. Let the experts put their brains to it and herself and the doctor, the matchday doctor, will make the final call. But as she said, it is that room for decision that we have to make. But yeah, most of the times, for us as players, we want to soldier on. But that's why we've got smart people like them in the room to help us. Yeah, Inge and Doc, they're great people and we've come a long way. So we've got a relationship. She will tell me straight, Gaz, I don't think it's fine for you to continue. Let's pull you from this one. Or Gaz, okay, it's fine, you can go. So yeah, that's pretty much how we do it.

Brenden Nel: Yeah, knowing who's who and what that means for one person who says, oh, it's a bit of a scratch, it's hurting me. It could be they're dying. Another person who says, I'm dead and it's a surface wound. How do you get to that? I mean, I was around you in PE and I watched that the players would come to you. Inge, they trust you. This is a position of trust, no? You have to be able to win their trust so they can really level.

Inge Croy: Yeah, and I think that's the main thing. And within our medical team, our physios and doctors, I think the most important thing is that we've created really trusting relationships with the players. And remember, they have to trust us to get them back onto the field as well. So it's a two-way, it's really a two-way relationship. And without that trust, I don't think that we could be doing as well as we are doing. I mean, remember, if Gaza comes to me, he's a bit stiff, his hamstring's sore, his lower back's stiff, what do I do? Does he continue training? How much of that information do we actually then also kind of go to the coaches with? We decide together when it's important to know that we're in trouble or when it's not. But it takes time, and it doesn't just happen off the bat, but I've been so fortunate enough that, I mean, I think having been within the system for this long, not only working with the seniors since 2019, but getting to know each other better so that we know they can come to us in confidence and know that they're going to be looked after and not thrown under the bus.

On Injury Prevention and Peak Performance

Brenden Nel: Inge, how do you keep people at peak? I know it's not just about reacting to injury and rehabbing, you also have to talk about prevention of injury. There's a big difference between teams that are racked by injury lists, soft tissue injury year after year, and teams that aren't. You've obviously gone UCT, honours, and then a graduate degree from Montgomery College. How does that work? How do you get a team to be at peak fitness and keep it instead of having these valleys and troughs?

Inge Croy: Well, thank goodness we have a team of physios as well as our S&Cs. We can't do without the collective. And we go with strength, and we do our screenings, so we're doing preventative work throughout the season. These guys hate us, but they've got a program. They have to do it on their cases. Have you done your mobility? Have you done your specific prehab? And that's specifically individualised to the specific player based on what their risks were, based on what their recommendations are. And that goes from preseason through into our season into postseason so that they can come back knowing what the work-ons are.

On Touchline Interactions

Brenden Nel: Gaza, when I watch you play, you're one of those guys that every time you are talking to the physio and you've got something that you have to work on, I always know the next play you're going to score or do something wonderful. So I'm not accusing Inge of being a coach here, but something's going on in the interaction.

Damian Willemse: Yeah, I mean, you definitely have a good eye, mate. But, yeah, for me, it's like I love to just go to the side because I'm a fullback to get information, take information, ask Inge what are the coaches saying, is there any messages. So I feel like that's like the low percent or, you know, half percent that I can get of that information. Okay, what are we saying? What's the comms there? How's everyone doing? And that's something that I feel like then I can translate from the back or from the side to the team. And as Inge said, it's a collective thing. So it's not just, you know, physio or player from the back or the coaches from the top. It's all of us together, you know, making a plan or coming up with something and, you know, maybe me giving her comms to give to the coaches. So, yeah, I think it's, you know, it's a collective effort. And, yeah, whenever I can, I go to the touch. I'll just chat to Inge. She has some SlowMag there for me. She knows I love some SlowMag. It's a lot of running in the backfield there. So, yeah, as Inge said as well, you know, it's a collective thing. And I also think I must admit and give her some credit where it's due, she's obviously one of the only females within the male environment. She also provides a real safe space for a lot of us. So, yeah, just to go over to her, you know, just knowing that Inge will be like, hey, are you okay or whatever, just check in with you. So that's really important, as you said. She's like low-key, you know, a psychologist.

Brenden Nel: Yeah, it's tricky. Like I never wanted to ever show any fear or, you know, I wouldn't want to cry in front of a guy. But there's something different. You can actually come clean a little bit and share your feelings. And sometimes you're at a posture point. Sometimes you're about to break, and you need someone to give you a bit of a pat on the shoulder and say, let's go again.

On Playing Multiple Positions

Brenden Nel: Gaza, you play at 10, 12, 15, sometimes a controversy at wing. You know, those are all different training. There's all different physical demands. I mean, you see the game very differently from first receiver versus at the back. And obviously, you know, if you're the first ruck setting centre, inside centre, it's a whole different thing as well because you're having contact every time. How do you train and adjust for all that? Or do you just have the same regimen of fitness no matter what?

Damian Willemse: No, so it really does change because, as you said, the demands of each position is different. And it requires a different skill set. And that skill set needs to be firstly, obviously, trained and practised. You need to understand it, whether that's, you know, by looking at footage, walkthroughs. And then, yeah, obviously making connections with whoever you're going to play with. If I play with Ruhan now and I'm on wing, you know, I can obviously, you know, for me, it's much easier because I've played close to like 60 games, 70 games with Ruhan as a centre partnership. So, yeah, it's also like combinations. But again, I think obviously with the modern game's going, and I've said it in previous interviews as well, it's going to be expected. And I think you're going to start seeing more versatile utility players coming through. And, yeah, as I said, it's something that I really enjoy, especially this season, just to add to my craft and my skill set. So whenever I need to be called on to play a different role for the team, I know I'm confident in my skill set and that I've trained it and I've played there. And, yeah, as I said, it's just with the modern game's going. So, you know, for me to just like stay one up, it's really important. And it's something that I've really enjoyed doing.

On Scanning and Reading the Game

Brenden Nel: So you enjoy that. Some people like to have a specialist position and learn and dig in. When you see the game, is it like a map to you? Is it like a video game? I mean, when you look at it from 15 versus from 12, for example, like how different is it for you, for your eyes?

Damian Willemse: For me, I normally just look at triggers, man. As I said, I'll do my prep based on obviously footage and then just looking at individual triggers or team triggers. And then, yeah, it's more for me like looking at where can I apply myself and what's my point of difference. When I'm at 12, obviously, you know, I'm going to have to be much better in close contact skills. With fullback, it's a lot more problem solving and, you know, thinking, staying one phase ahead, sometimes even two phases ahead when there's a kick, anticipating where the next kick is going to be or what that 10 is going to try and do. So, yeah, obviously it's two different positions, two different point of views, you know, from fullback to centre. But, yeah, I think for me, I try and keep it as simple as possible. But I really feel like my analysis is where I do most of my work. So when I do come to the game, you know, I obviously try and implement what I've seen throughout the week and what I've trained. But, yeah, then also having that insurance or assurance that, you know, if anything changes, I can adapt and I can adapt quickly within nanoseconds, which is imperative.

Brenden Nel: And you have to pick the right line as well going on the field. You can get marooned if you're in the wrong spot, you know, and you cannot go cross play. Tell me the truth. Have you ever gotten hurt yourself, injured on the way into the field, pull up a hamstring?

Inge Croy: No, thank goodness not. Let me tell you that I know that it's not going to happen. And I know colleagues who have slipped or pulled a calf, but I've at least been fortunate enough not to have that happen to me at all. Thank goodness.

On the France Quarter-Final Scrum Call

Brenden Nel: Yeah. Guys, I've had some really memorable situations watching you play. One was I was in the Stade de France and the quarter-final, the famous quarter-final. I got one of my all-time favourite selfies with you. You were kind enough to come to the barrier and picture of me with all these French guys crying. Well, it was interesting because during that match, I was the only one green and gold. One other guy, one kind of down low, he and I in the whole section. And they were singing, you know how deafening it was, and they were sure of it. And I just kept saying, we're going to knock you out. We're going to knock you out. I was standing on my chair just shouting it to make myself believe it. And then the moment happens where you call the scrum. And for some reason, everyone around me, all the French people were like, is it permissible? Is it allowed? They were asking me like as if I was making a rule. And I said, of course. If Willemse says it's good, it's good.

On the France Quarter-Final Scrum Call

Andrew Mehrtens: And I had no flipping idea. So tell me the truth. Was that something that you already had in your locker, in your head? You knew what to do? Or was it just a moment, like spur of the moment decision to say scrum?

Damian Willemse: Yeah, so that was basically like it was a team, coaches. Yeah, they came up with a plan. So, yeah, I was fortunate enough to be in that position to call the play. It could have been anyone. It could have been one of the wingers. It could have been Pollard or Arendse if they were in the backfield. But, yeah, the most important thing was obviously for me, managing the forwards' load, making sure they're fresh, checking what time in the clock it was. Because if I can remember it clearly, they went from a scrum and went wide and just kicked the ball. And, you know, we didn't put in any pressure. So I knew that the forwards were still fresh. And, yeah, made the call because, yeah, I think the timing of the game was also going to be crucial. So, yeah, it was obviously for me, if I made the call and it didn't come off, I think everyone in South Africa would have probably crucified me. But, yeah, again, it was a team. It was a team and the coaches' plan for it to do it. And everyone bought into it. And, as I said, for me, it was just really important to really call it and nail it at the right moment. And, yeah, the rest of the boys backed me up. So, thanks. Thanks to everyone involved.

On Scanning and Game Awareness

Andrew Mehrtens: I just wanted to ask you something quickly. We spoke again in December the other day about transitions and players scanning. And something I picked up when you were talking just now, you were aware of what the forwards have to be managed and where the gaps are. And you mentioned something specifically about major eye movements. And some of the more normal players, let's call it that, scan maybe once or twice. A guy like Kolbe, who scans six times in the same time span as a normal player, how would you see you doing in that sense? Because it sounds to me like you're pretty much one of those hyperscanners. Let's call it that.

Damian Willemse: Yeah, scanning is really important. It's probably the most underrated skill on attack. Because always you see these guys throwing crazy passes, Manie kicking a no-look cross kick. But he scanned that space three phases ahead. And he's already spotted the wing not being in place. So, that is probably one thing I must say. It's something that even in our team with Dave, it's how you look for opportunities and making sure, as I said, staying one phase, two phase ahead. So, if something's not working, you know exactly where you can go back to or what other space you want to take. But as I said, that's the thing. It also comes with playing. You get more confident. And, yeah, you just start trusting the people around you. If they say they want the ball early because you've scanned and seen space, giving you the ball, and then you can apply yourself. Because with the pictures you've painted, like one, two, three, four, five, six, you know exactly what move you're going to do or what step you're going to take or if you're going to go for a kick. So, that's really important. I mean, as I said, it is crucial, especially at this level, because you don't have a lot of time, especially with a lot of teams now bringing in the Blitz. Your skill set needs to be, obviously, on a different level. Then, again, you need to be able to scan and look for space.

Andrew Mehrtens: Is that something that the great player is born with? Is it something that you can be taught? Is it something that you're coached? Or is it a bit of both?

Damian Willemse: I think it's a bit of both. Some guys are naturally just good at scanning and looking at space and seeing space. Then, yeah, it's also something you can train. You can literally go and review your training and see how many times you're scanning. Yeah, and I think you can also look at footballers, guys like Frank Lampard, Xavi when he was playing at Barcelona, Leo Messi, like those guys. I think there's a guy that did a study on how many times they scan and how many scans they do before they actually make a pass or play. And it's really a lot. It'll open your mind and just, yeah.

On the Stormers' High-Tempo Game Plan

Andrew Mehrtens: Stormers play in a burst type of rugby, Inge. It's not just trying to build 25 phases. It's obviously the team that is least likely to do that. Actually, it's more like let's score, let's do it, let's go. Dave preaches a lot of seeing exactly what's in front of you and taking advantage of exploiting those gaps. So when you're doing the peak training and the injury prevention, are you thinking about that? The Stormers are a high-burst velocity team. Load and go, load and go, get up, get go, get it back and go, as opposed to structuring, building some sort of elaborate plan. Is that part of your thinking?

Inge: Absolutely. Like we all have to be aligned, right? We follow a rugby programme, so we have to know what our game plan is. We have to understand the coach's philosophy and what they want from the players so that we can optimise what we're doing so that they can be the best that they can be. And that's not just us, predominantly the S&Cs, but it's like with Damian, him covering full-back, centre, wing. There are different demands on his body. So in that week or leading up to that, you're going to have to make sure he's kicking more now this week or he's kicking less and he's covering more metres. So have we prepared him enough for that responsibility? And that's really how you're thinking about your individual players each and every time, to make sure that we've really protected them and made them robust enough to cope with all of those different adaptations, as Garza said that he needs to do. I mean, covering full-back, then all of a sudden there might be an injury. He now has to go to wing. I get to chat to him a little bit more in wing because he's right there. But again, within each game, things change drastically.

Andrew Mehrtens: I love that. Inge, you're about 5,000 times smarter than the physios when I played. They were just yelling at us for being babies. Get up, you're not hurt. That's not pain.

On the Caleb Clarke Tackle

Andrew Mehrtens: Guys, I was thinking, so in preparation for this interview, I did rigorous research. Obviously, I went back and I watched something that I've always kind of stuck in my mind. I think it ties into physio. So it's Caleb Clarke. He finds the hole between Wiese and Bongi. All Blacks against Boks, 10-metre line. I think he leaves Soso for dead. Obviously, that's not a problem. One man to beat. You're coming from all the other way on the other side of the field, and you're smiling. I made sure I looked at it. You're chasing down Caleb Clarke who ran a 10.7 in schools, and you're smiling. And you run him down, and you tackle the man twice because he gets up and goes again. I didn't know that. I had to look at that again. And you just take his soul. So where is that fire coming from? No one would have blamed you if you didn't catch Caleb Clarke who had a 10-metre start on you. Where did you get that reserve? Do you have a bit of an extra load? Can you reach down somewhere else and get it? Is it from your mom, Charlotte, your dad, Fannie, your brother, Ramon, your roots? Or is it just something innate that you're like, you're not going to beat me?

Damian Willemse: Wow, that's a very good question. I think it's, yeah, as you said, it's probably where I come from. I've always been competitive as a kid, coming through school, primary school, and I just loved to compete and obviously playing against the All Blacks. And that's a big moment in the game. I know it was still the end of the game, but still, you're wearing the badge, and you don't want to disappoint yourself, your family, everyone at your hometown who's watching you. And yeah, as I said, that was just the moment where it was one-on-one. It's going to be like, okay, who's going to win this battle? And yeah, I think actually in that moment, I thought he was going to step me on the inside. So I think why I was smiling is probably because he took the outside. That's probably why. But yeah, just deep down, we all love the badge. It's an honour to represent your country. And I think for me, that moment was just how much it meant because, as you said, it was the end of the game. But again, there's something deeper. There's more fire. And yeah, I just really, really wanted to and not let him score, you know, and yeah, I was obviously lucky enough to stay in that hunt and, you know, make that tackle, which was massive.

Andrew Mehrtens: What a great tackle, two-handed too, just taking both hands, putting him on his shorts and bringing him down. Sorry, Inge, what were you saying?

Inge: I'd like to add to your question and he's being so humble about it. I mean, he's the ultimate athlete, right? Like we're playing Benetton in this season. He has a grade one hamstring strain in the last 10 minutes of the game. We wrap him up and he says, no, I can still carry on. And he also does a cross cover to go for one of their wings or on attack and we go and we score. So from that, so again, it's just innately in him and I think it speaks to the athlete that he is as well.

Andrew Mehrtens: Thank you, Inge.

On Giving Back to the Community

Andrew Mehrtens: Yeah, and I think sometimes there's inner reserve, there's a reservoir, guys, that's down there that we find from our roots, from our family. I love this as a coach in America that talks to basketball players, he talks about to his team, he says, I want you to be as tough as your mum. He doesn't pick a male relative, he picks someone in their family. I know you're very close to your mum, Charlotte, and you guys have worked together to feed the community that you were raised in, making food on a Tuesday, running an operation, you know, food for two days for people, porridge, curry, jams, and you're a partner in Be The Difference. Talk to me about that, you know, what's the giving back part of that? And how much in your mind, in your heart, in your soul, are you tied to where you're from?

Damian Willemse: Yeah, I think for me personally, I have a responsibility, you know, as a man, as a man of the community. Obviously, I've got the great opportunity and honour to play professional sports, represent my country. So I also have a duty towards my community. And, you know, even if it's just a little bit of whatever we can give and give back, I think it's important. And I think, you know, you should, you should do it. You know, as I said, it's, it's, yeah, it's something that myself, my family has always been really, really, really big on, to look after each other. My neighbourhood where I come from, where I used to live with my gran, you know, it was always so loving, caring, community based. And yeah, so obviously, when we moved now, to a different part of Oostersee, I told my mum, after COVID, you know, that, obviously, the need was still there within our community. So, yeah, and I think, obviously, you know, I wanted to inspire the next generation of athletes. They might not to be athletes, but, you know, there's a lot of talent there, you know, musicians, dancers, you know, all kinds of like, some of them are teachers, and one of my friends actually just, he got graduated to be got upgraded, or upgraded, promoted to, to, to the Afrikaans head department of the Western Cape. So there's, there's a lot of talent there. And I think we all just boost off each other, you know, when one's doing well, he's like, Damian, thank you so much for that, man, that really inspired me. You know, I've started now going to the gym or whatever, like, I'm putting in more to my work and my craft, and I'm trying to get the kids rolling. And, and that's just how you get, you know, the ball rolling. And as I said, I have a duty, and it's my duty to give back, you know, not just by like, giving food, food away, and just saying that, but really, really, like, mean it. And as I said, it has a big influence on a lot of people back home.

On Cheslin Kolbe Joining the Stormers

Andrew Mehrtens: No, that's so inspiring. You've got a friend of yours coming to the Stormers next year, Cheslin Kolbe. And Inge, he's also one of the guys, I'm sure of this, that he uses the physio more than anyone else in rugby. So you're going to be running even more. Cheslin's always got something going on. I think it's because he's a super athlete. Can you see the vision there? Guys, I can see the backline with Sasha, you, Cheslin. I mean, there's some Emi coming on as Young's come off. The old man, Corbisiero, calling the shots. I mean, there's some unbelievable firepower. But how do you organise that? That sounds that sounds like a rave in a mosh pit, you know, with a blindfold on.

Damian Willemse: Yeah, no, I think it's obviously a great addition. Cheslin Kolbe is one of the best rugby players in the world, probably of our generation, I would say, arguably. And he's a Stormer. He's always been a Stormer. Obviously, he had a great time in Japan. But obviously now it's time for him to come home. And we're looking forward to having him. And I just think he's going to add more, you know, obviously, flavour, juice, flair, x-factor to this great Stormers backline that we already have. And yeah, obviously, with with him coming in more as obviously another senior player, with Siya, with Fourie coming in as well, it's just really, really gonna, you know, give us the opportunity to still fight harder for for trophies next year. And that's what we want to do. We want to put the Stormers, as we have done the last couple of seasons, where maybe haven't got it over the line as we would have wanted to. But we've put ourselves in very good positions now getting these additional signings to the club, you know, just going to put us in a much, not much better, but like, it's going to give us a chance now to compete in Europe and URC all the way back to Cape Town, where we're, you know, where it belongs. So and just keeping Stormers Rugby up there. Because all these guys come from our unions, you know, from our region. So yeah, it's great to have them back. And yeah, we're looking forward to having them back home.

On Facing Leinster in Dublin

Andrew Mehrtens: You're in Dublin, you're getting ready to knock Leinster out, shock the world, turn it upside down, reverberate, earthquake, and I'm ready for it. You know, and it's interesting because you go into these matches, and there's got to be a thrill, the jeopardy, the suspense, you know, you've been around, I know you're 28 or so, but you've been you've seen a lot of rugby in a long time, this has to get your juices flowing. Mehrts will remember this very well when your drop goal against the Bulls, 70 minutes in 2022, en route to title. They're, you know, and Mehrts is in pain a lot now during this side by side series. But you know, Dobbo said, I think post that that drop goal that you hit, Damian oozes blue and white. He bleeds blue and white. I mean, you are province man, you are a guy that goes way back. How good does it feel right now to step on the field in Dublin and knowing that you're the leader of this team? You're a senior player. You know, I've always thought you played best in games where it's tough and rough and not everything is going just right. You're not the flat track bully, you're the, you know, let's grind. How ready are you for tomorrow?

Damian Willemse: Yeah, I'm really looking forward to tomorrow. I mean, this is, these are the games that you want to play and these are the fixtures, you know, you want to be in and you look forward to it. And you obviously, you worked the whole year to be in this position. I said to someone the other day, we were like, Benetton was like last year, October, before November and look where we are now. And, you know, it's been so much work, you know, as I said, from everyone involved, you know, from the owners to the backroom staff at the HPC, at our training grounds, the work they've put in, the work the physios have put in, the work the players have put in to go on the road, win at Thomond Park, win at Benetton and Treviso, where we've never won a game. Scarlets was tough. We had the two tough games against the Sharks, the Bulls away.

On the Challenge Ahead

Damien Willemse: So a lot has gone into the season and, you know, we've really, really grinded to get here. And yeah, now we're here and it's, as you said, I love when it's tough and it's hard and, you know, you want to play against the best players in the world and, you know, Leinster certainly have plenty of them. They've got probably 20 Irish internationals in that team. And it's an opportunity for us. For a lot of the young guys, they're going to be up against some British and Irish Lions, 50, 60 test caps for Ireland. But again, we've always just stuck to our processes, the things we do well. We're a blue-collar team, as they always tell us. You know, a lot of guys, we just work hard for each other and we just fight for this badge and for everyone in the team. Some guys don't have the opportunity to play this weekend, so we're representing them as well. And as I said, our responsibility towards the people back home was putting in such a lot of work, our fans and supporters was turned up for so many of the games. So tomorrow is a day to go out there and just leave it out there in the field, you know. It's going to be massive, a lot of nerves, a lot of positive energy as well. But yeah, it's a game you want to play and we're really looking forward to tomorrow.

Andrew Mehrtens: I have one of my favourite sayings, it's from Sittenstern as Lady Best, you know, if I can avoid something strenuous or tense or anything, I'll do that. You go the other way, you run towards a danger. I'm very interested in that side of it. Why? Why is it so exciting for you to do this kind of thing? Because people generally tend to shy away from confrontation and tough times or whatever, yet you sort of excel in it. What's the difference there? What makes you that person?

Damien Willemse: I think I've always just really enjoyed, you know, doing the hard yards, like the stuff that the people don't always necessarily see, but that's really rewarded within the team. Or yeah, like I don't care about a highlight play or whatever, but you know, like covering a backfield kick or, you know, being there to help my teammate or make a cover defensive tackle. Yeah, I think that's just the type of player that I am. And as I said, it's always been in my DNA to fight, you know, since I've been a child, came from Somerset West with as primary. We never had a field, obviously got the opportunity to go to Paul Roos. I was obviously competing against some of the best school boys in South Africa. And then, yeah, I obviously got the opportunity to play for the Stormers at 18 years old. And then after that Springbok. So it's always been, you know, I've always been up against, you know, adversity. Yeah, it's part of me. It's part of my family. Yeah, it's in my blood. So yeah, I've always, I went back down.

On Managing Emotion and Uncle Chippy

Andrew Mehrtens: To manage emotion in a group of young men, and how everyone's affecting everyone else is tricky. Obviously, one of the toughest things happened, Uncle Chippy, passing away this season and managing that. Of course, there's too much emotion probably right afterwards. It's hard to control. Now you know, it's receding in the background, it's still there, the pain still there, but it's different. You know, it's not on the top of your brain all the time. Dabo told me a great story about this week, you know, the backs and the forwards go out and have their separate dinners. And you can monitor the seriousness of the forwards by how much beer they drink. And you know, if it was normally like 30, it's two. So like, they're really like in a proper angry mood, and they don't want to drink. That's good for you guys, the forward pack is ready to be angry. But like, how do you sense it now? You're very close to the pulse, you know, you're doing that vital thing in all elite sports, strapping, you know, we have superstitions about it, we like it just so. And getting ready, you're talking to your physio, your friend, how do you feel it? You feel like the boys are ready to shock the world?

Inge: Absolutely. And I think this mid-dinner was definitely testament to that. There were cokes all around. And as soon as they were done eating, they were heading home. And I think having lost Uncle Chippy, and I think this is the perfect person to be sitting here with this interview, because I mean, having been part of the Stormers since he's 18, Uncle Chippy was also close to being this mentor and this person. And so I think for all of us, he still sits right in our hearts. And I think that kind of adds more to the emotion of where we are at within this competition. Talking about Benetton feeling so long ago, when we went through that slump of our losses. Remember, as physios, I think we feel all these things. When guys are struggling with injuries, we know the kind of mental state they're in. We have to still try and keep the positivity and so not get down into that emotional roller coaster for yourself. Because I think that let them live the emotions. And we there's the sounding board to try and just kind of stay stable and strong so that we can support that because it's going to be a big one. I feel we're ready. I feel we're focused. I feel the boys have done a lot of the work, both on the field and off the field to really pull it off this weekend.

On Leinster and the Game Plan

Andrew Mehrtens: Yeah, they say still waters run deep. There's something really powerful down low. Guys, I'm telling you, this is just from me. This is my brain telling you this, but it's also my sense. Leinster is ready to break. They just need someone to help them break. I think there's something there that's not quite right. And there's something very, very, very harmonious at Stormers. People are thinking with one mind, one body, one spirit ready to go. So just take us out with how you see it going and what you do in those times, in those big, big games. How do you get yourself ready?

Damien Willemse: Yeah, look, obviously teams come first. So it's team prep. As Inge said, our team prep has been very, very, went very, very well this week. Travel was awesome. Boys came here, recovery. And then, yeah, we've just been, obviously, you know, split dinner. Some of the backs went for simulator golf, just to connect and bond a little bit, have a few laughs. And yeah, and I was just obviously with your individual prep, just mind, brain, gym, and probably just like putting yourself in situations, scenarios that could play out and how you can apply yourself in a big game tomorrow, how you can control your emotions. And then, yeah, obviously, we need to admit the fact that Leinster is a great side, no matter what. They still made it to the Champions Cup final. They're in the semifinal of the URC. They finished second on the log, second on the log. So, you know, as much as people and their fans or whatever, give them slack for whatever, they still, Leinster, and they still have four stars and they're a great team. They've got great coaches. And still have Jacques. Yeah. And yeah, I think, obviously, the way I think the game's going to go, it's going to be close, man. It's going to be big moments. As I said, they've got quality international players there, but so do we. We have some serious players as well. And as I said, we're not going to, we're not going to come here all the way to Dublin and just take part in this game. We're coming here to obviously win the game and go to the final and go all the way, hopefully. But yeah, we're looking forward to the game, man. And yeah, I think whatever happens tomorrow will happen. And as I said, we won't leave any ounce out there.

Andrew Mehrtens: Yeah, let's just do it, guys. So we're all looking forward to it. It's going to get the bodies, feet up now and recover. I feel it, man. I feel it, MV. I just, I heard Damien giving this answer, but I was, like, volcanoes were happening inside him. It was ready to, it's ready to burst. He's just keeping it on the down low. It's low key. But while the backs were playing golf, Damien, the forwards were out chasing wild boar and tackling deer and drinking deer blood. That's what they were doing. So no, it's been really great to have you guys on. And we are really chuffed to see the relationships inside the wider part of a team. That's what we're fascinated with on this pod. You know, all the different ways it goes. And it couldn't be happier that we had you on, Inge, with Damien. Obviously, the love in the team, just all throughout the team, it's visible. It's great to see.

Inge: Oh, thank you. They gave me grey hairs, definitely. They just hidden very well. But it's a real privilege. And I mean, it's a privilege having seen, actually, some players actually have grown up in front of me. And so, and have seen these legends leave and legends returning. And so for us to be able to be in the serving role, it is a real privilege.

Andrew Mehrtens: When is, when is Daubé going to grow up?

Inge: We'll leave that to you to figure out. How's that?

Andrew Mehrtens: Yeah. Cheers, Damien. Great to have you as well.

Damien Willemse: Thanks, guys. Bye.

Andrew Mehrtens: This is the Lekker Rugby Pod, only on Megaphone Rugby.